First let me just say I am a huge fan of the RTS genre and I think you guys are pioneering everything that’s good about RTS games. I am really excited to try Supreme Commander 2 and King’s and Castle’s looks to be an amazing game from what you have commented about it so far.
As a veteran RTS player (going on 20+ years of gaming now), an avid quality tester, an individual who loves old school LAN parties with friends, and someone who just loves a tactical, strategic, and immersive RTS experience, let me just say a few words on some of the downfalls the industry has taken as of late and comment on my hopes for King’s and Castle’s…
**********A small rant*****************
A lot of RTS developers these days seem to make a very small selection of units to pick from, zooming in to an almost first person shooter zoom level, and then only letting you command a small handful of units at a time.
Take Company of Heroes vs Dawn of War 2 (by Relic studios) as an example of MANY…
When Company of Heroes came out Relic revitalized the RTS genre by adding sector control, medium-large engagements, “Off map” abilities and custom units for each doctrine tree, a random hit model (attacks have a chance to miss or be deflected), units could take cover in the terrain, vehicles had a realistic damage model where they take more damage from the back and sides than the front, and vehicles deflected most small arms fire presenting a rock paper scissors threat onto the battlefield for an increased cost… All amazing aspect that made a great game. Then in an effort “bring the genre to a wider range of customer” they released Dawn of War 2 which completely abandoned those amazing features that made Company of Heroes a great game and “dumbed it down”! They lowered the number of units you control to a very few, removed sector control, vehicles have no hit detection, etc. as they opted for a more Role-playing game squad simulator. My point in bringing this up? DON’T ABANDON THE FEATURES THAT MADE YOUR ORIGINAL TITLES GREAT! (Not that I think Gaspowered games ever has or will I just want you guys to avoid the pit falls of other studios)
**********Rant over*****************
I am giddy with anticipation that King’s and Castle’s will offer EPIC scale battles with “strategic” zoom (All RTS games should have this feature you guys pioneered), titans (like experimental units from SC1 & SC2), siege weapons with incredible range and firepower, massive infantry battles, a “research” tree to customize and advance my units abilities, a LARGE number of units to pick from! More than just the generic “infantry man”, “archer”, “catapult”, and “Titan”… We need Swordsmen, Axemen, Pikmen, long-bow archers, crossbowmen, sword-cavalry, mace-cavalry, lance-cavalry, ranged-cavalry, magic users, tinkers, tamed beasts, flying dragons, catapults, trebuchets, magic based siege weapons, cannons, etc. We should have so many options to pick from that we could go an entire battle without ever building all the unit types. Diversity and selection is key to a tactical experience.
Consider adding some RPG elements for your king (gains experience or veterency with a pool of powers to pick from as he levels up)
It would also be nice to have faction specific “off map” powers to pick from (like company of heroes, and many other rts games). But instead of “off map” artillery powers we could see something like summon a thunder storm that randomly strikes enemies in a large area, or a massive comet strikes your foes from the sky, or summon a Kraken in the water that temporarily will fight for you and then leave after a set amount of time, or a pillar of fire that descends from the sky and consumes your enemies armies. You could add any number of faction specific and thematic “off map” powers that would compliment your armies.
I can see multiple factions having very diverse unit types… For example…
A Viking type faction who’s units are very aggressive and dish out a lot of damage but aren’t very well armored, they use berserkers, summon massive dragon titans, they prefer axes and hammers over swords, their magic users are shamans who utilize the power of lightning and the earth, they summon titans who resemble old gods or beasts or giants to reflect their viking nature and their off map powers are like “raiding party” – summons an elite hit and run pack of cavalry, berserkers, dogs, and wildmen at any location you have revealed from the fog of war that attack your enemies and you gain resources for each time they attack. Or another off map power might be you summon an erupting volcano at any location. Which does massive damage to everything around it. Or summon a blanket of fog that hides your units, etc.
Then you might have a second faction that are more civilized, chivalrous with knights. They would have a smaller number of elite units but they would cost more to make, they have specialist heavy cavalry and mounted knights, very heavily armored infantry with shields and swords, their Titan units would be less bestial and more divine oriented, and they would have sun or light based “off map” powers.
A third faction might be a horde of the unclean, necromancers, the banished, the undead, vampires, more supernatural in nature with demonic titans and life sucking “off map” powers that decay an area of the map and any units who die on or from the decay are raised up again as specters or the undead who fight for your side instead.
Each faction should have its own flavor and feel and this should be reflected in the type of units they build, the type of structures they make, the titans they summon, the castle/fortress they come from, and the type of “off map” powers they get.
It would also be nice if each faction had “Sub-Factions”. For example, once you pick your faction you then have the option to select one of 3 sub factions. If you picked the Viking faction you would be given an option to select which god you want to worship which would then in turn open up unique units, titans, and off map powers. This should all be IN ADDITION to the standard tech tree for each faction to add even more diversity.
All of these features plus the addition of massive battles, strategic zoom, and huge fortresses and castles to defend will make for an epic game that will change the RTS genre once again for the better!
I hope my vision for this game will provide you with some insight and perhaps some features that make it into the final product. I can’t wait to dive into the King’s and Castle’s universe!|||I definitely agree with sub-factions, age of mythology did that part right, and that is more or less the only reason why i remember it.|||I pretty much agree with all things you sayed. but for one thing. the thing you sayd about off-map abilaties is fine, I just don't like the concept of summoning a unit or units for a set amount of time.
If you for example like you sayed, summon a horde of vikings for a raiding partie, why would they go away after a set amount of time? do you need some sort of magic to sustain them? I get the fact that you transport them from some place to the battlefield, but why would they have to go away? I'm fine with the summoning part, you have to get them here somehow, so teleportaion seems the logical chose. But ones they're here, there is infact nothing stopping them from staying. I just always thought that whole idear a bit silly, and I would prefer if this was not used in this game.
but further than that, I prety much agree whit all you sayd.|||If there are off map abilities and/or powers (I sure hope there are) then summoning units as an off map power wouldn't have to be temporary. I was just providing an example. I figured a raiding party that gives you resources when they attack would have to be balanced by giving them a set timer. Maybe not.
Of course you could have off map powers that summon elite units that only your faction or sub-faction exclusively gets. I love that concept personally.
A mix of "Fantasy nukes" (like pillars of fire, meteor strikes, lightning storms), debuffs like fog, buffs like temporarily increased armor or moral boost are all welcome ideas for off map powers in addition to elite units that you can only summon once every so often.
All of these would of course be in ADDITION to the normal units you can build, the upgraded units you could build, and the titans "experimentals" you can build/summon.|||re1wind|||I think off map summons are annoying.
Why? Because you can summon anything to the backcountry of your enemy, and he/she can't do anything to stop it. He won't have any intel, that what you summon(It's more like C&C)
Instead off map summoning:
You have 3 main units:
The king (if he dies, game over)
The general:(provides speed and other bonuses to the army)
The high mage:very weak without protection spells ,can summon creatures in short range, can research new spells.
Or maybe combined into one unit.
Research: you can research/and upgrade spells, armor, weapons, structures, and maybe relics.
But only that unit, which have adequate veterancy level can wear(weapons/armor),or cast it(spell).
Veterancy can gained from training for gold(and especially time) or kill enemies.|||sub factions are a great idea. i'll vote for the Norseman.
AoE had subfactions and it worked well.
--i'm on the fence with summoning though. i played enough of it in recent games like torchlight and LoR. and i actually started hating it by the time i was done with those games.
summoning. not sure what to make of it. but i'm very curious to hear what chris's ideas are for including stuff like magic, wizards, supernatural powers, gods, summoning etc...
wonder how much of a role he'd like it to play, if at all.|||I'm fine with summoning on it self, but it should work a bit differant than just make them magicly apear all of a sudden anywhere on the map.
a better idear might be to summon say a massive dragon thing like you build experimentals in sc now. some mages stand around a circle filled with odd signs and booming with light, summoning the beast. but this would take time, build time. and the creature would then stay on the battlefield until killed.|||Hey new to the forums here. I just read about KAC and was glad that someone is making a medieval/fantasy based RTS of late.
i like sub factions in RTS games it makes that faction that much more interesting to play since each sub faction would have different strengths and weaknesses. As the other poster mentioned it is what mad COH such a great game and it had only 2 factions before xpac.
If they do the sub faction I hope they do its something like COH where you didn't have to pick it right from the beginning. You can basically pick based on how the game progresses. You might have an idea of what you want to do at first but it could be negated by what the other player tries and you can change your strategy if you're comfortable with it.
i'm not sure what they have in mind but yeah much more unit deversity would be great. Longbows can be a pretty potent ranged unit but with an upgrade like 'add fire' to the arrows for some sieges (If they are going to do something like sieges) burning stationary defenses etc.
Just tried out Demi god and like the idea of those "gods" acting as hero type units. Maybe they could be some sort of KAC experimental type units and such.
I'm eager to see what GPG has in store this title
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