There are a lot of sub-components to this idea, but the general model of heavy infantry/spearmen is obviously not a new one. They're normally slow, sometimes they do bonus damage vs cavalry, and one of their main roles is always to block enemy attackers from reaching the vulnerable ranged units like archers (e.g. Rise of Nations, Total War games, AoE games, etc.)
However, I think K&C could expand on this formula with its potential for huge differences in scale, simple/streamlined control over unit abilities (i.e. 'on/off' buttons), and faction diversity in a fantasy setting that allows for more unique units, abilities, and game mechanics than we see in the formation-maneuver gameplay of Total War battles.
Specifically, I envision one human (UEF-esque) faction that is more 'vanilla' medieval/fantasy, and it would be seemingly outmatched by the mega monsters and demons of the other factions. Being humans, they could be a lot smaller and individually weaker than the basic unit types from other factions. This gives you a great visual contrast in scale. Human fomations of tens/hundreds taking on fewer numbers of bigger mega monsters.. And I'd expect that to work well for a lot of unit types.
The big difference with the infantry/pikemen would be using them as part of a broader 'mobile turtle' strategy that only fits with the massive formations used by the human faction..
Whether the units are produced separately or in squads, it should be possible to put heavy infantry in very tight formations, and then give them a 'hunker' mode where they can't move. (or their speed is *heavily* reduced). They'd use classic shield/spear wall phalanx tactics to resist much larger enemies when in hunker mode, but their DPS would also be reduced.
Thus they'd form the walls for mobile firebases composed of much more powerful (but presumably slow and vulnerable) ranged units like catapults, trebuchets (on wheels), wizards shooting fire, etc. So the humans would rely on this mobile-turtle tactic to achieve something like a point-defense creep for taking ground.
To keep things interesting and balanced, the infantry walls could become much more vulnerable when they're in normal/'sprint' mode, which they'd use to advance their position to establish another forward firebase.
This lends itself to the other factions having quick strike and ambush units, capable of charging in and decimating a human faction when their mobile firebase is packed up and on the move.. Which in turn could necessitate the humans using multiple hedgehog formations to cover each other while they creep forward.
This also leads to the idea of giving some units, (but not all), a 'trample/shove' ability that works the way experimentals work in SupCom2. The best part about this is that the 'formation breaker' trample units don't need to do a ton of damage or be insanely powerful themselves, they can just be the battering rams that break up 'hunker mode' formations, letting a swarm of demon creatures flow in behind them to inflict lots of damage, either because it breaks the 'hunker mode' and its defensive bonus temporarily, or they can just bypass the infantry wall and take out the more vulnerable artillery/wizards/archers in the rear.
If this were used extensivey and with large enough formations, it could look very cool (and Total-War-esque), with many wall formations spread out across big battlefields because the humans really don't like to be flanked. The bigger this gets, the cooler it becomes for counters, including air drops, stealth units, teleporting, units that jump, etc. etc.
Finally, this would work well for upgrades/research.
The basic heavy infantry can be a standard melee unit at the beginning, but as the game progresses and they become outclassed, they could be given these special upgrades that turn them more into wall/blocking units, (e.g. shields to resist missile/ranged attacks, and spear/pike upgrades for resisting cavalry/beasts/big armored stuff, and the general 'hunker/dig in spears/dig trenches/erect fortications' ability that lets them hold their ground effectively).
PS: I've been sitting on this idea (and occassional others) for a while because it's hard to know how to give good suggestions when we don't know the basic mechanics/plan/scope/scale/design philosophy for K&C. However, VLOG#5 mentioned the issue with melee combat and trying to get units to mix together and be interesting.. so that encouraged me to post. I'm just saying, fans will need a lot more early info.. or there'll need to be a very long beta, to get really helpful fan input that complements GPG's plans.|||I like the idea of cavalry or other mounted units being able to stun units while 'charging', and/or throw them around much like how the Universal collosus sucks up units and throws them back.|||I'm all for this idea.. But since it didn't get any attention I went and made a thread about, close to the same thing.. I just wanted the formations to be in the game, no matter what..
I like your ideas.. But at the same time, if this doesn't make it into the game somehow, I'm gonna hate you for bringing it up xD|||@Highflyer:
I agree that the idea you posted is the first step. I'd really like to see some sort of shield-wall and/or turtle formation options for basic infantry.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=44946
But I took it further in my post here because I want to differentiate unit types and tactics into something a bit more diverse and interesting than the basic hp/survivability vs effective DPS (plus range) that rules unit interactions in SupCom2. I guess these formation walls would fit in like the support units (e.g., mobile shields and armor boosters), because their primary value is not in their ability to survive and destroy enemy units, but to increase the effectiveness of other units.
The beauty of this idea though (imho), is that it can create some more complex unit roles without resorting to the more abstract and artificial 'buff' options like a hero that grants increased HP or increased damage for friendly units in a radius. Aside from the fact that it uses a 'hunker' dynamic, it also avoids the abstractions of an 'armor' system that automatically makes infantry good vs X but weak vs Y.
To put it another way:
I don't want the shield walls to *just* make basic infantry tougher and more viable later in the game (in the same way that training research boosts the HP and DPS on a Rockhead). That's a start, but it's even better if the formations come with some handicaps (like reduced speed and DPS) to increase unit specialization and, along with the great potential for something like flowfield-trample-units as wall-breakers, really let GPG create some novel unit interactions and balance that I haven't seen before in other medieval/fantasy RTS.|||Mr Pinguin|||I like the idea of a human faction (Uef-esque as said) not having beasts etc in their arsenal, but rather masses of human armies and technology. And they fight against nations who rely on beasts and deamons.
That make a good storyline too, the *imperials* taking on the *heretics*... No wait that story has been used before, but something like that would be good.|||Please, not flow field. Anything but flow field...
Also, faction diversity FTW.|||This idea lends it's self to making formations a unit of faction based ability, thus infantrymen of the empire may be able to form up (with or without their hunker ability) but a reaver type unit form a Norse faction may not be able to.
This could lead to very distinctive troop movements as units without formation would tend to blob and flow.
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