I want to see the sort of thing you might see in the film Braveheart, for example, where two sides charge at each other with a roar, and then they collide with an huge crash and limbs go flying everywhere :)
Its up to the designers to come up with some strategic and balanced gameplay mechanics that fit with this theme, but make it happen! :)
For example, since SCom/KnC is presumably going to be large scale and have lots of units on the field, it might be possible to make the normal soldiers have very little actual health. (so they often die from one or two hits that chop off a limb or whatever). But give them the ability to defend themselves, struggle back and forth against an opponent, push each other back etc. So face-to-face soldiers might be in stalemate for a while, whereas if attacked from behind, or during a charge, they might die really messily and easily.|||That's a nice idea. I was playing around in my head with the idea that infantry would have very few hitpoints, maybe only 1 or 2 in total, but would carry shields which would act like "cover," preventing damage in a certain, limited area. This could be implemented by making the shield produce a shield (in SupCom sense) with a limited hitbox but nearly unlimited health and can be moved with the unit's model. I'm not sure if that's feasible though. I know shields can have rectangular hitboxes, so perhaps the shield will be a bubble shield with the dimensions of the shield's model.|||Thats a great idea. The first charge and clash would have the most casulties. It would be fun to have large footman battles last up to 20 mins and only something tactical from the player could change the odds.|||I know there are a few RPG games that take advantage of this mechanic, having things like helmets and shields reduce or negate damage to certain areas of the body.
I have yet to see it implemented in an RTS, and I would to see it here.|||Back to the aesthetics and some solid combat scenes instead of the swing swing would be pretty awesome. I like the idea of a large number of units with low HP. A single or two hit infantry would be awesome and fast paced and still have that massive scale. Plus it would be fresh. Sort of what Counter Strike did for FPS. Just has to be done right.
The idea of armor upgrades has been kicked around before but I just dont like the idea of micro that goes along with it.|||well abercombie does have a good point there with its 70's nostalgia fine cut clothing but I'm not sure how it really relates to the point of melee aesthetics.|||hopefully gpg will pioneer the game industry once more into more aesthetic melee combat. But we shouldn't get too ahead of ourselves, the animators are working hard and they just had to spit something out in time for the e3 demo so hopefully they'll figure out a way to have more "interesting" melee combat animations without totally destroying the engine|||That's the thing, i dont think it can be done purely as an animation, as a superficial thing on top of your typical fantasy RTS combat.
To get the sort of imagery that i want, i get the feeling the game mechanics / balance needs to be suitable for it.|||A way to make infantry army clashes more epic could be to have % chance based procs that could be upgraded/added via upgrades/veterancy
adds a little bit of randomness to a fight where a smaller but lucky/skilled force can defeat a larger unluckier/less skilled force.
examples of units:
all infantry when hit (if they survive) play hit recovery animation for .2 seconds
melee warrior with a sword and shield has:HEALTH:20
-attack: swings weapon does 12-24 damage at melee range .9 second attack animation
-Block (40% melee 70% ranged) chance to block incoming attack with sheild -> stop attack -> goto block animation take .3 seconds to recover from blocking enemy takes .4 seconds to recover being blocked
-parry (20% melee only) chance to block incoming melee attack with weapon -> goto parry animation take .1 seconds to recover from parrying enemy takes .3 seconds to recover from being parried.
-Barricade (ACTIVATED ABILITY) slows movement speed (or imobilizes) and increase range block to 90% and melee block to 70%. attack speed reduced by 30%
(good defenses good vs ranged units weaker against dedicated melee)
melee two handed warrior has:
HEALTH: 20
-Attack: swings weapon at melee range for 15-30 damage 1.2 second attack animation
-parry (20% melee only) chance to block incoming melee attack with weapon -> goto parry animation take .1 seconds to recover from parrying enemy takes .3 seconds to recover from being parried.
-Charge (passive) when enemy is within 10 meters unit gain +30% movement speed and first strike on enemy target does 20% more damage
-Cleave (passive) when attacking 20% chance to defeat enemy block (not parry)
(strong in melee has no ranged defense)
Ranged Long gunner (from concept)-HEALTH:16
-Shoot: fires a musket ball at a target for 19-22 damage 85% accuracy small spread 2.9 second fire rate.
-Rifle butt: does 4-6 damage in melee
-parry (15% melee only) chance to block incoming melee attack with weapon -> goto parry animation take .1 seconds to recover from parrying enemy takes .3 seconds to recover from being parried.
-penetrator rounds (UPGRADE passive) 20% chance to ignore target's block when using shoot.
(good ranged unit slow attack. can be upgraded to pierce enemy armor)
when "recovering" from being hit, blocking or parrying or having your attack be blocked or parried units cannot attack or block/parry.|||sir, you just won the "he! thats a pretty good idear" award. congratulations.|||yeah i've been wanting to see an RTS treat infantry for the fodder they are for a long time now. some have tried to squad method and it does convey a sense that each individual soldier isn't worth much but i dont like squad based controls at all. i prefer to be able to tell an individual unit to move and have him immediately follow my command not have a delayed formational move out from the whole army.
what i'd really like to see is infantry able to be produced en mass, be cheap and relatively weak individually. i want to see big battles where armies clash and casualties immediately start piling up as soldiers die in bloody messes.
i'd also like to see medium sized units or magical/mythical beasts be able to be taken down by a lucky/skilled soldier. lets say if a unit gains veterancy it gains a very small (1-10% based on veterancy) to play out a special instakill animation on a creature similar to how a quick time event might play out in god of war. and maybe also awarding special "hero" bonuses to infantry who manage to slay a beast (+% dmg to beasts, plus %to dodge beast attacks that sort of thing)
a good balance formula is T1 infantry/small units > T2 cavalry/creatures/medium units >T1.5 specialty infantry/T3 large units/creatures/siege weapons(ballista) >T1 infantry (en mass)
of course there are exception units to keep things interesting like an anti T3 medium unit (Heavy Mounted Knight?) or an anti infantry T3 siege weapon (machine gun or flamethrower like) and things of that nature.
man i wish i was making this game with you chris...|||lol just got another idea. have units that have taken damage but not died slow down in everything they do by 30% or something. have some kind of field medic/priest healer unit be able to heal units that are out of combat. just adds a logistics/supply element to combat. maybe have a T2 supply wagon be trainable and have it be able to mass heal infantry after battles.
kind of protects your veteran troops.
also adds a target during raids. if you can kill the enemy healers/supply units first their units will be slower/ weaker and wont be able to be healed after fights.
adds another element to combat other than my army is bigger than yours.
also makes retreats a bit more interesting as wounded units wouldn't be able to run away as fast slowing the chasing army by distracting them
Edit: damn i should really just make a new thread to put all my ideas in lol|||How about totalwar style melee combat? as in human soldiers don't have Hit point, but an attack/defense value ? Whenever they attacked from the front, the two fighters make an opposing rolls and the loser dies instantly ? Since you have a lot of soldiers, rules of large numbers would dictates the better units would come out ahead.
if attacked from front or behind, they just die.
As for healers - just give them resurrection
. Healing just won't be enough for combat of the scale shown in K&C.|||Just make combat somewhat like total war style... Make units lock into combat animations while fighting. And have a certain chance of killing the other unit, or blocking an attack etc. Also eliminates the annoying problem of having blobs move around all the time while fighting, like in SupCom2...Problem is, if they really want to make combat animations like in total war, especially Empire total war, that will be very expensive to make..
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